In part two of Shannon's conversation with Terry Hill, he reflects on the lessons he’s learned from a lifetime of martial arts. As one of the country's top, and most respected martial arts coaches and an international Sanda judge, Terry discusses everything from why Muay Thai Kickboxing is staying strong in New Zealand to what NZ martial arts is lacking most. He talks about how martial arts is misunderstood, explaining the concept of controlled violence, and he shares his thoughts on fitness, self-defense, and why martial arts should be mandatory in schools.
Thanks again to Terry for taking the time to share your knowledge - you can check out San Bu Kai here https://www.sanbukai.com/
Thanks to Punish Fight Gear https://punish.com.au/
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Shannon (00:09) Alright Terry, if you were to pass away tomorrow, what are three things that you'd like to leave Three little things of wisdom or advice, would you like to leave behind?
Terry (00:28)
Keep training, the physical thing's important. It's important for everybody. And keep, you know, even for old people, keep moving, keep doing things. Mentally, just continue to learn, continue to grow and learn. Like I'm a prolific reader, I've got stacks and stacks of books But yeah, I read as much on the martial arts, martial ways combat sports as I can and devour, a lot of it. But yeah, just keep that mind learning and ticking over and keep nurturing that spirit. Whatever you're into, do it. If you're into, you know, the fight game, the martial arts, then yeah, do it, follow it.
You don't have to be in there actually physically participating, but you can be supporting, can be helping, you can be doing lots of different things. And that's actually how I got into officiating. I was like, okay, well, I'm not going to be able to compete at the highest level anymore. So where do I go from here? What can I give back? And yet the officiating was the next thing. Of course, teaching It's not our time. Our time's gone and it's time to help them.
Shannon (01:39)
All right. Talking about time, Terry, if you had a time machine and you could go back, what's something that you'd change in your career, fighting career or life in general?
Terry (01:58)
Yeah, I don't think I'd change too much in my career as much as, you know, like you said before, we don't like the losses, but they're part of the learning curve, you know, and I'm grateful for some of the shitty decisions that I think I got, but I'm just grateful for the education through it from it. What would I change? I don't know, not too much.
Terry (02:26)
I've got six sons, three different wives and one other one.
Shannon (02:27)
You can't say you'd change that because then your sons wouldn't be here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Terry (02:38)
I'd never change that. They are all awesome. and, you know, that's the beauty of it. they've helped my growth with martial arts. But all my sons have had something to do with or do some form of martial arts or combat sports. you know, it is a family endeavor for us. For me, this is just personal, you know, self-defense and physical fitness should be taught in every school, in every class, from primary school on up. And I can guarantee the problems that you have with bullying and all the rest of it, a lot of that would be out the window. You've got little kids who can wrestle and take you down and against the big bully, then yeah, the boxing, kickboxing thing, yep, they don't have to be sparring, they don't have to be punching each other in the head, you can do interaction with it and just give them a really good workout, burn off their energy, let them hit something because that's what we as human beings need.
Shannon (03:28)
What's the weirdest, training exercise you've ever had to do? One of your trainers proposed or, or maybe one that you've heard of. What's the weirdest or funniest training exercise that you've had ever had to do?
Terry (04:09)
I've had so many different teachers too. I wouldn't be able to put it into a nutshell. With my boxing trainer, Arden Whatu he's a great trainer, giving me some different punching drills on the heavy bag and absolutely just blowing my cardio out and me thinking afterwards, you prick, why did you make me do this? That hurts. And now I make my students all do it as well because it's...
It's a very good plyometric exercise. good.
Shannon (04:46)
Yeah. So, you know, being an Aussie and I've never been a great scholar. Oh. I don't know about that. But yeah,
I knew of Lolo and Phillip Lam and Alex Tui, but you were telling me, Alex actually fought from here, fought in New Zealand. I knew that he went to Australia. was Australia's first World Kickboxing Champion. yeah, obviously coming from, is he's Tongan, isn't he? Alex?
Terry (05:20)
Yeah, he's Tongan and he was training with Lolo and Wayne Vaega at his Phillip Lams gym up in Auckland. So they were Lee Gar And I fought Alex. He was based in Australia at the time and he kicked my ass. He put me away in two rounds. Yeah, strong, strong puncher. Really, really good, good exponent.
Shannon (05:40)
Yeah. Another thing that I was, I was pleasantly surprised when I came to New Zealand is that kickboxing, you know, Muay Thai, K1, is still, still pretty vibrant here. Still, still alive and alive and well. yeah, I was, I was quite surprised and you know, like so many people, so many people train, train it here.
Sort of a part of me is sort of like, let it die. It's like, no, no, UFC is taking over. You know, all the kids, all the young ones are going to be into UFC and that sort of thing. But I've found that that Thai boxing, still pretty, pretty vibrant and pretty big, you know, when we say big, you know, like
We can't compare it to, you know, to the main sports of rugby and league and, and cricket and cycling. was still good to see that the sport was still alive over here.
erry (06:52)
Yeah, I mean, you've got some really good fighters, some stand up fighters that aren't interested in the MMA. Titus Proctor, who's here from Hamilton. So he's one of them. He got asked if he was thinking of going into MMA and he said nah, He said the stand up is my game. He said, I love it. And he said, and I'll just continue on with that. Try and get into something like one or K1 in Japan, they're struggling at the moment though. But yeah, you know, there's people that find their niche, just like you could say to every soccer player, football player for the English, you know, do you want to be an All Black? Do you want to play rugby union, etc And they'll say, no, I'm happy where I am and I'm making good money, you know, and pretty much that's Titus. And there's been a few others as well. They've just said,
Yeah, the MMA thing is cool to watch, nah, you know, my game is kickboxing.
Shannon (07:52)
All right, Terry, if Bill Gates gave you $2 million. What would you do with it?
Terry (08:02)
I'd just say thank you, shake his hand and walk away. I don't want anything to do with any of those rich people, but I'd certainly take the $2 million. What would I do with it? Basically, I'd set myself up so I didn't have to work anymore and just live off the interest. That's the first thing. But as far as spending it, yeah, of course it would be on either family and or martial arts. So I'd be looking at... probably getting a bigger gym and a flash of place. I mean, I like my gym. It's great. it's very, very comfortable and a very spiritual place for me. But yeah, I'd certainly sometimes like to have a bigger place just simply because they have to go outside and skip on the pavement because there's so many of them. So in that regard, but...
Yeah, money. I've never had it, ever. I mean, I grew up, I'm the youngest of nine in my family. My mother bought us up. Yeah, you know, I mean, my father buggered off when I was, after he finished conditioning me and smacking me around and then took off. I've never had money, ever. You know, I've been married three times. It's not a big deal to me. I mean, you need it, you've got to have it. It's nice, but it doesn't mean squat, you know?
Shannon (09:30)
Yeah. Terry, I was telling you about, Yeah, one of your students that, you know, he just spoke very highly of you, you know, You go to, you go to your gym and it's just a, it's just a lovely, lovely place. These guys are open, very open and friendly. It's just a really good feel there. And I'm sure you've got testimonies, about students of yours who've gone on and done great things in the world, you know, being great people.
How do we maintain that positive influence in the community? How do we keep doing that?
Terry (10:19)
Yeah, I think a lot of it's education. Um, the general concept of martial arts to most people is violence, you know, where it's not. And the character, which is actually on the wall behind me over my shoulder there, that means to stop the spear. So it's about the control of violence. It's broken down into two areas. One is the spear. You can see the... the long stroke there and the other kanji is it means to stop. So martial arts is about stopping violence, about controlling violence, about being in a position where you don't have to use the violence to be able to win. And again, I think it's what we talked about before with the communication stuff. If you can do that, but you're going to have to have the confidence in yourself to be able to approach the people and to be able to do that. And that comes through the physical training, through the mental conditioning, and through a spiritual ambience. Chin Wu, it's a Chinese martial arts association in Shanghai, or started in Shanghai, it's all over the world now. But they, the founder of it, Huo Yuanjia had a very, very good saying that a number of martial arts organizations around the world use. "Martial arts teaches you to condition the body, to cultivate the mind, and to nurture the spirit". Say no more. And if you can teach that to kids in school and bring it on up into high school and give them functional things that they're going to need to be able to use. after they leave school and get out into the world, then cool.
But the self-defense, I believe that every school student should be learning this as they go through their school years, because it changes, you know, from being a little kid to knowing what to do and to make a lot of noise if somebody attacks you and run away, to being a teenager and actually having some technique to be able to back yourself up and to be able to... to win as in get out of the situation and be able to walk away. And then for adults, of course, it becomes a little bit more serious, especially when you're dealing with older people. But there's all sorts of things that people should know about. Most people don't. Most people put themselves in a situation and can't get out of it. Well, not most people, but a lot of people do. And consequently, they get hurt.
You know, there's no awareness of things going on around them. There's just this whole blasé attitude around their life and consequently in some cases they lose it. So we had a guy literally just up the road here who was coming back from a bar. He decided he was going to walk. He left his car in town doing all the right things. He's walking home and sees some young girls breaking into a vehicle. So he calls out to them and asks them what they're doing And he walks over there and one of the girls stabbed him in the leg. Now she said in court, she stabbed him in the leg because she didn't want to hurt him. She hit the artery. He died there on the spot. Just bled out.
So, you know, those sorts of things. A. you had a phone because you called the ambulance. Don't go over and get involved in it. Call the police. It's their job. You know, and maybe if it was your car or your son's or daughter's car or whatever, then maybe you would. But know about being able to keep distance, about being out of range for them to be able to do anything where you can actually react and move away.
If you see the blade, then stay right away from it. You know, it takes a very short penetration to hit something, a vital organ. So, But yeah, I can guarantee he'd never been taught or told or instructed in anything like that. And that's the same with most people. They just, you know, rush out their front door and Not in this day and age, mate.
Shannon (14:34)
Yeah. So Terry, how do you teach, or develop good character in your students?
Terry (15:05)
Screaming at them a lot. Haha. Nah. gain, it's a communication thing. I mean, there's discipline and there's structures and those structures have to be adhered to. And that's what makes it a military system, a martial system, as opposed to a communal system where people are just doing what they want and running around and being loud, et cetera. So with the children in particular, once they fall into that, this is what we have to do, then I can actually teach them and they can have some fun and learn things.
But you know, I think the main thing for kids in martial arts is to enjoy themselves, have some fun, learn some stuff, learn some self-defense, as in what to do, what not to do, and just have fun. You're kids. There's some structure there, but it shouldn't be rigid.
Now as they get older and they become teenagers and now they're more inclined to rebel and to go against the grain anyway, then those protocols need to be more heavily enforced. But not to the point where they don't enjoy themselves. We still let them enjoy themselves but the structures are tighter and the discipline is probably paramount at that point. And then as adults, then we're relating on the same basis.
So you should be able to relate to things the way that I can. We're talking as equals, So let's continue this journey together and keep moving forward.
Shannon (16:51)
Terry, final question, what are some of your hopes and some things that you'd like to see happen in the next 10 years?
Terry (17:02)
Well there's a big one, the first one is that Sport New Zealand recognises the Combat Sports Commission which we need in this country. Unfortunately there's been number of fatalities in corporate boxing and a very bad and serious injury in a kickboxing contest down in Balclutha But we need a structure that unfortunately Sport New Zealand failed to recognise.
Every other country in the world has it. In Australia, you have it state by state. And there are combat sports commissions. But in New Zealand, there's nothing. And anybody can do pretty much anything they want. But there needs to be some control and some structure around that. That's the first thing. The other thing is, I'd like to see the schools introduce and adopt a self-defense. And again, it's not something, I mean, you want... good instructors to be able to teach it. But I know a lot of school teachers who are martial artists and some of them even mixed martial artists and they're very, very good So let these people help with introducing and bringing some training methodology and letting the kids have a hit out and have fun. You know every species on this planet, us... animals, insects, everybody wrestles and rolls around with each other or runs into each other and bumps each other and everybody does and now they're telling you in schools that you're not allowed to do that. You know, get lost. mean the people that make these policies they need to be in a zoo where people can poke at them and look at them because they have no idea at all. And what we talking about before, most people's perception of martial arts and combat sports is violence. It's not, there's a hell of a lot more than that. And the fighting is part of it, but the training, the discipline, the structures, yeah, this is all good work. And also, you know, it takes them out of that element of being in a troublesome environment. I mean, you go to the gym.
You fight, you train, you spar, and then you've got the big fights coming up. You're not doing it for free on a street corner or in a pub. You're probably not even going to be in the pub. So yeah, martial arts in schools, and yeah, New Zealand, get a combat sports commission.
Shannon (19:20)
All right, thank you, Terry. How can people find San Bu kai?
Terry (19:40)
yep. You just look it up. Just Google San Bu Kai Martial Arts. Come down, have a train.
Shannon (19:42)
Thank you, Master Terry.
Terry (19:52)
Thank you brother, much much appreciated.
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