In this first ever FightScene conversation, Shannon F16 Forrester and Sandy Heilig delve into the world of Muay Thai, exploring personal journeys, the importance of mental health, and the impact of coaching on young fighters. They discuss Sandy's unexpected entry into the sport, her journey as a fighter and trainer, and her advocacy for mental health awareness following personal tragedies. The conversation also touches on the evolution of Muay Thai in Australia and the importance of addressing the less glamorous aspects of being a fighter. Sandy shares insights from her experiences and emphasizes the significance of the 'You are worth fighting for' message that went worldwide. Standby for Part Two of this interview, where Sandy will share her favourite live fight ever seen, (TIP = no it is NOT the Shannon Forrester / Rex Redden bloodbath), her best advice as a trainer, and a dream Reality TV fight??
Big thanks to the legendary team at Punish Fight Gear for always looking after Shannon! Check them out at https://punish.com.au/ Shannon has been using this gear for years & 100% rates it as tried & tested 👊
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Shannon (01:21)Welcome to FightScene with F16, an online space where we talk to fighters and trainers past and present we talk to talk to them about their lives get to know them what makes them up why they became a fighter and yeah just finding out about the person behind the scenes sometimes out there in the public but to develop a fighter takes a lot of work on behalf of the trainers who put in a lot of time and effort yes and lot of interesting characters in this sport so just getting to know people and just talking to people My guest today is Sandy Heilig, personal friend of mine for many years Sandy's been in & around the sport for thirty -five years
Sandy Heilig (02:15)
Thanks for having me bro. You too, thanks for having me Shannon. I appreciate it brother. It's good to be able to come and share this space, especially with someone like yourself man, someone who's been around forever and knows this game and mentored me through my journey, a lot of it. So it's good to sit here and kick it with you brother.
Shannon (02:33)
Yeah, yeah so Sandy let's go right back so what got you into into Muay Thai Kickboxing.
Sandy Heilig (02:42)
Actually, it's an interesting story. I never meant to fall involved with this sport. I had no interest in it at all. I grew up in a house where rugby league was everything. My twin brother played rugby league. I spent the first 15 odd years as his tackling bag, I think. But yeah, when I got to high school, my best mate actually, she spotted a car that had
BJC, Zendo, Kai, Muay Thai, kickboxing. And she thought the guy driving the car was cute. So she followed him and got the number. And we were still at school then. She got her Mum, her Mum, to follow her this car around so she could get the number, making out that she was interested in trying the sport, but she was only interested in striking up a conversation with the guy in the car. So she begged me to come along and I said, no, I'm not really into that.
Sandy Heilig (03:38)
And that was at a little dojo in Wynnum at Wynnum Central State School where we had the top floor. And she badgered me for weeks to go along with her until I caved in. But yeah, I just went as a wingman or wing girl. And I think she stayed two lessons and I'm still here 30 years later.
Shannon (03:53)
Yeah. and Yeah so you and I have got a similar similar introduction to it for those that don't know BJC; Bob Jones Corporation Zen Do Kai Karate and then branched into the Muay Thai yeah, I came through the BJC as well, a lot of fighters in Australia and New Zealand have done that so yeah I sorta know where Sandy's coming from there. So what was your first Fight Sandy, what rules did you fight under what year, what year was it?
Sandy Heilig (04:35)
Yeah, I was the millennium year actually. My first fight was in the year 2000. Yeah, I was only a kid then. I was 20 years old, 19 or 20 I think I was, something like that. And I actually turned up as a spectator and ended up on the card by pure accident. The promoter at the time was actually one of my trainers and yeah, he put on this show. used to do them down the local football club.
Sandy Heilig (05:02)
So I turned up to watch the fights and one of the girls didn't show up. So he threw me in, in front of this girl that had been training a couple of months for this fight. And I don't know what happened to the girl that was supposed to fight. Anyway, I jumped in, I borrowed a sweaty old pair of shorts from the guy before me who was also in our club. And they jammed his mouth guard in my mouth, which didn't fit. I choked on that the entire fight. It was a three by two minute round, Full Thai rules. There was no pads back then.
Sandy Heilig (05:31)
We didn't have elbow pads or shinies or nothing. It was just get in and smash and it was. It was all like weapons. It was excellent. I fell in love with it. I loved it.
Shannon (05:34)
Yeah. I remember going to my first zendo kai lesson and just doing the warm ups with my mate thirteen and just cracking up laughing doing the hip rotation warm ups just being teenagers laughing but yeah i was the same i was the same when they introduced the leg kicks from the muay thai and trainers like just leg kick and just check them just check them as hard as you can hob- hobbling home after training ugh ugh they're like are you alright? yeah that was so good aye
Sandy Heilig (06:13)
Yeah. Same man. I remember my trainer used to tell us we weren't doing it hard enough. Even when it hurt, you'd have to, "ugh" or he's like, that didn't hurt. Okay, worries. No, it didn't. All right. Same thing. The old hobble.
Shannon (06:24)
Sandy I don't know what year it was and you came down from Brisbane to train with us at Boonchu Gym fought one of our girls Juanita, and then you ended up coming down and joining the team and you got us all jobs, got us all jobs at your at your work that you were working at the time yeah, on the Gold Coast lifestyle. One house , a house full of dole-bludging surfies, the next house, a house full of dole-bludging kickboxers, funny day's
Sandy Heilig (07:08)
yea Seagull Ave, Yeah. It was like a two bedroom unit with 14 people crammed in it. Just a cesspool. Many memories were made in that joint but.
Shannon (07:17)
Yeah so Sandy it's been, I've had I've had eight years sort of away from or away from the sport just other parts of my life and and family priorities and stuff & I've just popped my head back in about a year and a half ago, but sort of haven't caught up with you for a while but I know you've been doing some really really good stuff sort of since we were knocking about. I know, let's just take it back ten years. You know, you've been in different capacities in the sport. You've been a trainer, also a promoter. You've done some shows and been doing a lot of work in the mental health sector. Something else that's my heart too, I find really good you've been reaching a group of people that probably haven't been introduced to the sport, indigenous youth on Stratie Island, yeah, tell us a bit more about that Sandy.
Sandy Heilig (08:27)
Yeah, that was, I had a gym here 20 years ago called Phoenix Gym. And, yeah, I had a couple of little kid fighters back then. And one of them later on took his life when he was just shy of his 20th birthday. And, he was actually the first kid that I'd ever put in the ring. So my bond with him was strong because, you know, you never forget your first little fighter, your little protege, you know.
So I had a strong bond with that kid and I was actually off the island out and mining when I found out what had happened to him. And yeah, I ended up coming back to Stratie and we re -birthed the gym and named it after him. yeah, I ended up losing my nephew like a year after Jai, which was horrible. And he'd also had a fight under me. And yeah, he actually took his life three weeks after that. So. I kind of stepped away for a few years and I'd done one show just for Jai's sake and then Mitchie took his life five days after that show, which was all about mental health. We raised 21 and a half grand for Beyond Blue and everyone was cheering. Beyond Blue were happy. The promoters, all the fighters, everybody was happy. And then I got another suicide five days later in my own family. It was my sister's son, also one of my fighters. So I kind of just disappeared back to the desert for a few years and just worked on building the Quandamooka Cup message, which was the slogan that I created, "You are worth fighting for" I employed the help of fighters from all over Australia and at all levels too. We had novices, we had world champions, we had so many people involved in a couple of boxers as well. So we printed them some shirts and threw them some clothing and said, you know, pump our message when you walk out and fight. And they did. And then it kind of caught fire that "You are worth fighting for" slogan that I've created the image for. I just printed it on some stuff and threw it on some fighters. And I didn't think it'd go much further than Queensland. And then I had people from all around the world messaging, you know, I really want to be a part of the ambassador team. So I had people from all around Europe. I had people from Canada, America. I had the Farrells, Eddie and Brooke Farrell as well, who were overseas at the time doing their thing. Great people too, by the way. So they were my Aussies plus Celeste. She was over in Thailand. I had people from everywhere, people in Thailand throughout Asia, America, Canada, Europe, all jumping on wanting to be a part of this. And it just blew up. So Quandamooka Cup message was thrown all over the world.
Which was pretty surprising to me that this little thing that we created on Stratie for Jai had just blown up so quickly. But what it proved was how many people are affected by suicide and mental health and how many people, especially in our fight community around the world, how many people that message spoke to, which at the moment I'm not doing too much with Quandamooka Cup. I haven't deactivated it. haven't, I've just, stopped, stopped promoting it. I've putting myself into it because I was slipping mentally. So it's just, it's still there. I've just put it on the back burner to allow myself to do some work on me and start healing my own traumas and past triggers and that, which has been a wonderful journey. I work with a trauma counselor, Nat Mazzoni, who I love dearly.
And she's helping me through my own personal journey. and it's been great. It's been incredible. And I've learned a lot about myself through the journey. We've been on it for just over a year. And, as I said, Quandamooka Cup I may redo another show. I may not, I may keep pumping the message. I may not, but I do hope that that message will stay present with people that you are worth fighting for message, whether I decide to promote another show or not. hope it's something that stays etched in people's memories forever. I just hope that people will remember that message, especially when they need to.
When they're struggling because us as fighters as you know we all struggle man and it all sucks life sucks and the thing is now with social media so present as part of promoting Muay Thai around the world it's so big now because of social media I, I think that There's a kind of pressure on people to show the glamorous sides of the fights and the highlight reels, the great training sessions, the wonderful ones. Whereas not many people show the reality of, you had a shit day today in the gym. It was a bad training session. You weren't, you felt bad. You had to work all day. Your kids are crook, your husband or your wife or your girlfriend or your partner. You've been blueing and all day because you're not spending enough time with them because you're in the gym all the time, preparing for a fight, you're cutting weight, you're mentally struggling, you're physically suffering. Not many people show the ugly side of fighting. And I think this is where social media can be a bad thing because people feel they've got to live up to an expectation to get more support, which leads to sponsorships, which leads to getting, you know, living the dream. But people don't show the nightmare side of it. And I think that's why my message hit home so broadly around the world.
Shannon (14:05)
Yeah, take us back Sandy you've been around you've , I remember you've done a tour done a tour I can't remember what was called but training you trained and with so many different people different trainers from around Australia Some of the great trainers, great people in the sport Stan Longinidis and over in Western Australia the crew over there in Western Australia you know you would have you know you would have got a big cross section of different training methods and techniques and but also you know different wisdom and training training strategies What's what's something that stands out that you were taught or that you picked up that you that you pass on to your fighters
Sandy Heilig (15:01)
Look, that tour that you're talking about, the Great Southern Land Tour, I did that, when was that, think 2012 or 2013, I think it was. Yeah, I sort of come up with a concept because I used to watch Mudsy. Remember Mudsy used go around and interview everyone? He used go around at the back and interview fighters just in Brisbane and Gold Coast. And I thought that's a really good concept. I love watching his interviews. used to interview Wayne and Nathan and all those boys.
Sandy Heilig (15:27)
You know, right before Evo, he'd be out the back interviewing the fighters and I liked what he did. And I thought I'd love to do that, but go around Australia because at that time no one had really done that. So I thought I'm just going to grab a mic and I'm going to put it under the mouths of everyone in Australia. And then I thought, well, I'm at it. I might as well train. I was on a mine site. I was heavy. I was on a mission to lose some weight. So thought let's kill two birds with one stone. Let's go to these gyms, let's train, let's film the training and then interview them afterwards. And it just caught fire. Like it was just, I asked a few people, I went to Melbourne first. That was the first leg of the tour was Melbourne and went all the way through the gyms there and met again Stan Longinidis Bob Jones. I got to sit in his office and have an interview with him, which was brilliant. And yeah, I got to train with so many people around Australia from different gyms and some of the best gyms as well. And it was amazing because you're right, I did learn so much, but people kind of cottoned onto that because no one was really doing it. So everyone kind of started watching the journey. And then I'd get invited, you know, do you want to come to our gym? You know, please come to our gym. I'm like, people are asking me to come to their gym. I'm just a little fat miner that loved Muay Thai and fought a few times, you know. Now I'm getting invited to all these gyms and then I got invited to shows to take photos and then yeah, that kind of took off and then I just stopped. I kind of just went, well, I did that and I stopped and I just, yeah, I just went back to mining. Like I'm kind of like that as a person. It's like I want to create something and then once I've created it's like, I've done that now and I'll just stop and go and find something else to do.
And I learned heaps from different people, different styles. know, Melbourne was still fairly strong with kickboxing at that stage. But Muay Thai was starting to sort of turn now. think now Melbourne are probably the strongest state now in Australia for Muay Thai. With Perth probably a close second, if not even. Queensland, Muay Thai is not the same. Not bagging it, but it's just, yeah, the other states have come so far in Muay Thai that now Queensland's not the leading state anymore. Victoria is. Can you believe that? Victoria, the old kick -a -mabox -ing state. Now they're leading the charge here in Oz.
Shannon (17:49)
Yeah. Yeah I guess everything, you know, the sport evolves hey.
Sandy Heilig (17:59)
Yeah, sure does. mean, even now, you know, as a coach now, I'm trying to get better as a coach. I can't fight anymore. I wish I could do what you did a few weeks ago and jump back in and have one more. But I can't. I'm too... Mate, I'm... Matt Pease told me that he saw that on Facebook because he said to me, because I go there all the time, he goes, I hear Forrester is fighting again. I went, no way.
Shannon (18:12)
yeah, there's always one more in us
Sandy Heilig (18:28)
I didn't believe him. He goes, no, I seen it on Facebook. It's happening. I said, Kylee would have his nuts in a grill if she found out. No way, he's not allowed. And then I seen the post that you did it. I was like, wow.
Shannon (18:31)
Yeah. no actually I've got yeah I got permission, I got permission to do it she's actually been a bit more flexible
Sandy Heilig (18:44)
I didn't think the boss had let you mate, I even argued with Peasy like nah, that's no way. But Peasy's still... I think it's called old age. Sorry, Kylee. Love ya I'm only saying it because I'm here in Australia and you're in New Zealand.
There's a young boy over there that I'm interested in watching him grow is that Titus Proctor from New Zealand. I really enjoy watching that kid get better and better with every fight. Yeah, I like that kid. He's a beast.
Shannon (19:06)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fun. Yeah, he's awesome. He's a local from from where I am here a local Hamilton boy
Sandy Heilig (19:20)
Yeah. Yeah. Have you met him? Have you done any training with him?
Shannon (19:25)
Nah, I train some of his cousin's. Couple of the boys, yeah, it's like, New Zealand's funny it's um because it's so close you know Auckland's only an hour and a half away it's not that far down to Wellington It's different to Australia like, when I was in Cairns, it was like, you are just so isolated you know like a six -hour plane flight and everything so close…
END PART 1
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